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verticallimit
Chief Engineer


589 Posts
Posted -  23-08-2010  :  00:05:18
I have now over the last 14 days worked to get auto throttle to work.

So far, the A / T motor is only controlled by two relays (UP/DOWN), signals is taken from two outputs from the  Open coccpit Master card. However, I have big problems with electrical noise, and I probably have to manage the motor with electronics.
 
 
 
Next motorized functions are:
Long trim indicator
Auto Spoiler



Med venlig hilsen / Best regards

Claus

 

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verticallimit
Chief Engineer


589 Posts
Posted - 06-01-2011 : 00:41:01
Hi.

The scheme  shows this:

Move your flap lever to 0

Then you can messure a interconnection between

pins 2 and 3 in switch D

All other switchs are off

 

Move your flap lever to Slats

Then you can messure a interconnection between:

pins 2 and 1 in switch D

pins 2 and 3 in switch E

All other switchs are off 

Move your flap lever to Flap 11

Then you can messure a interconnection between:

pins 2 and 1in switch D 

pins 2 and 1 in switch E 

pins 2 and 3 in switch B

 

Move your flap lever to Flap 15 Then you can messure a interconnection between:

pins 2 and 1in switch E

pins 2 and 3 in switch B

pins 2 and 3 in switch A

All other switchs are off 

 

Move your flap lever to Flap 28 Then you can messure a interconnection between: pins 2 and 1in switch E
pins 2 and 3 in switch B pins 2 and 3 in switch A

pins 2 and 3 in switch C

Switchs D are off 

 

Move your flap lever to Flap 40 Then you can messure a interconnection between: pins 2 and 1in switch E
pins 2 and 3 in switch B pins 2 and 3 in switch A pins 2 and 3 in switch C

pins 2 and 3 in switch D  

If you can messure other interconnections you must  ajust the switch  

 

The diameter for the throttle wheels is 320 mm

Here is an idea how to make the clutch

Everything is loose on the shaft and can be rotated individually



 

 

 
 


Med venlig hilsen / Best regards

Claus

 

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sisoffi
Mr


218 Posts
Posted - 06-01-2011 : 16:46:36
Klaus.

i try to test with Tester all the measures.

Flap Up all signals for A-12,B-12,C-23,D-12,E-12

(Flap0) all singnals for A-12,B-12,C-23,D-12,E-12

 (Flap11) all singnals for A-12,B-12,C-23,D-12,E-12

(Flap15) all singnals for A-12,B-12,C-23,D-12,E-12

(Flap28) all singnals for A-12,B-12,C-12,D-OFF,E-12

 (Flap40) all singnals for A12,B12,C12,D-OFF,E12

In your manul you suggest to adjust the two blue and green rods but yet.

I try to inserti each section A,B,C,D and E as axis in X,Y,Z,U,V The only poistion work is 6U that correspond to flap 0 and D position and 6Z that correspond to flap 28 and position C.

Thanks,

Simone

 


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sisoffi
Mr


218 Posts
Posted - 06-01-2011 : 16:46:59
Klaus.

i try to test with Tester all the measures.

Flap Up all signals for A-12,B-12,C-23,D-12,E-12

(Flap0) all singnals for A-12,B-12,C-23,D-12,E-12

 (Flap11) all singnals for A-12,B-12,C-23,D-12,E-12

(Flap15) all singnals for A-12,B-12,C-23,D-12,E-12

(Flap28) all singnals for A-12,B-12,C-12,D-OFF,E-12

 (Flap40) all singnals for A12,B12,C12,D-OFF,E12

In your manul you suggest to adjust the two blue and green rods but yet.

I try to inserti each section A,B,C,D and E as axis in X,Y,Z,U,V The only poistion work is 6U that correspond to flap 0 and D position and 6Z that correspond to flap 28 and position C.

Thanks,

Simone

 


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verticallimit
Chief Engineer


589 Posts
Posted - 06-01-2011 : 22:37:38
Uhmm................

It seems that the contacts do not have the right features.whatchutalkingabout

Another and perhaps easier option was to mount a potentiometer on the flap lever, and then let it come in as an analog axis


Med venlig hilsen / Best regards

Claus

 

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sisoffi
Mr


218 Posts
Posted - 07-01-2011 : 00:01:34
Klaus,

i think the actuator was just damage when i receivive throttle.

I will proceed with a potentiometer, i have no other ways, ihave just lost two days to try to work this actuator.

 

thanks,

SImone

 


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sisoffi
Mr


218 Posts
Posted - 08-01-2011 : 14:26:33
Dear Klaus,

are you sure that the throttles wheels are 32 cm (not 23cm) ? we are really the limit for space.


The inner wheel is a sprocket?

how is the diameter of the felt discs?

Felt is attach with glue on the throttle wheel?

or is attach to sprocket wheel?

Thanks,

Simone

 


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verticallimit
Chief Engineer


589 Posts
Posted - 08-01-2011 : 20:34:46
The original throttle is not made with felt but with a more advanced coupling between the driving wheel and the big throtlle discs.

But should I now have to make some sort of linkage between the throttle and A/T electric motor then I would try my way with a hard felt, which would transfer a certain energy. exactly like the pull shaft on an old reel tape recorder, it is also performed with slip clutch.

When manual moving the throttle lever so it is in the clutch that movement is slipping. When it is A/T then it's sprocket which moves throttle handles.

But try to put a picture on the page so I can see more precisely what you have and have not in the throttle.

Yes the throttle disc are BIG

Blue is the disc for flaps

Red is the dimesion for the Throttle disc



 

 



 


Med venlig hilsen / Best regards

Claus

 

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sisoffi
Mr


218 Posts
Posted - 08-01-2011 : 23:47:16
Klaus,

do you think as well the Felt brushes of the polisher?

bolt - thr wheel - felt - sprocket - felt -  thr wheel - bolt are indipendent but in the same shaft?

thanks,

 

 


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verticallimit
Chief Engineer


589 Posts
Posted - 09-01-2011 : 01:17:58
I thought of felt similar to these: http://www.ahujafelts.com/felts_rolls_sheets.html

Perhaps these filter discs could bee used: http://www.drumza.com/category/Drum-Parts/Pearl/2.html

You might also try lining: http://indautomotives.tradeindia.com/Exporters_Suppliers/Exporter18311.285399/Brake-Linings-Clutch-Linings.html

There must be a pressure on both sides so that the felt squeezed against the surfaces. The harder the pressure the more resistance or friction in the clutch and in the throlle levers. The best solution was if you could fit a spring which presses the parts together.

There may need a little experimenting before the right result is achieved.

Bearing - spring - thr wheel - felt - sprocket - felt -  thr wheel - bearing

All parts can move separately, If I manually adjust only one throtlle handle to for example. 25% and then arm the A/T and it moves + 25%, then the handles stand at 50% and 25%. Runs the A/T to 100% then the first handles moves to 100%, against the mechanical stop, then the other will handle drives up to 100%

 


Med venlig hilsen / Best regards

Claus

 

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sisoffi
Mr


218 Posts
Posted - 11-01-2011 : 22:11:52
Klaus,

hope is well for the speedbrake actuator?

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Douglas-DC-9-MD-80-Aircraft-Spoiler-Actuator-Assembly-/230551782404?pt=Motors_Aviation_Parts_Gear&hash=item35adf50404

 

thanks,

Simone


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verticallimit
Chief Engineer


589 Posts
Posted - 12-01-2011 : 18:20:15
Hi Simone

I am sure that this actuator is the one who sits in the wing and lifts the spoiler.

 

The part your are missing are maybe this





This is the spoiler actuator, this activates the ground spoiler when main gear touch the ground under landing 

 

It works like this:



 

The motor can mover the arm 180 degress and stopped to a mechanical and electrical stop. The arm pulls the spoiler lever backward to extended.

I show the set up with a belt, but the real thing is controlled by a gearbox.



 

If you see videos from the cockpit you will see that the spoiler arm moves very quikly so the motor have to be powerfull.

 


Med venlig hilsen / Best regards

Claus

 

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sisoffi
Mr


218 Posts
Posted - 14-01-2011 : 12:18:39
Dear Klaus,

in italy i never find the the pulleys and the belts for two throttles wheels.

Have you a online shop to indicate me where to buy?

 

thanks,

Simone


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sisoffi
Mr


218 Posts
Posted - 14-01-2011 : 12:21:21
Klaus,

This morning I opened the speed brake-spoiler, I noticed that there are 3 switches normally open, left, center and right. I t must just plug one? and then how do they work?

I noticed that arming the speed brake is not activated, we must press forward to have contact.

 Many thanks,

Simone


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verticallimit
Chief Engineer


589 Posts
Posted - 15-01-2011 : 00:50:26
Try here for T5 belt and pulleys

http://www.cnc-store.it/cinghia-l10mm-p-157.html

http://www.azetagomma.com/english/_pdf/19a.pdf

http://www.shoppydoo.it/prezzi-ferramenta-t_v.html

http://it.rs-online.com/web/4745555.html

Do not be afraid to ask shops and suppliers for help. If you say that you need parts for a simulator cockpit, then there are many who want to help and are they become very interested in the project.

For the spoiler lever i don't use the contacts, i use a potientometer and an analog input.

 

 

 


Med venlig hilsen / Best regards

Claus

 

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sisoffi
Mr


218 Posts
Posted - 16-01-2011 : 19:31:20
Klaus, how many teeth you used for the belt and pulley? 33 and 12?

http://www.cnc-store.it/cinghia-l10mm-p-151.html

http://www.cnc-store.it/puleggia-t510-p-132.html

 

thanks,

Simone


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sisoffi
Mr


218 Posts
Posted - 16-01-2011 : 19:40:04
Klaus,

i find a DC motor 24v :

 

http://www.batteryspace.com/DC-Motor-Heavy-Duty-24V-DC-Motor-750W-2600RPM-28A-rate.aspx

 

it's ok?

 thanks, Simone


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verticallimit
Chief Engineer


589 Posts
Posted - 17-01-2011 : 00:33:45
Hi

The motor is very powerfull and should probably do the job, but controls the electric motor dimensions, so you're sure it can fit in the throttle. But what about the gearbox. I use the spoiler original gearbox. For A/T, I use a gearbox  8:1 (8 rpm in = 1 rpm out) and then uses the original gearbox, so the output comes further down in the rpm.

You can also choose to gear down by means of large and small pulleys, and less tension on the electric motor, Remember if you lower the voltage for the electric motor you will also lower the torque.

Remember: If you drive with excessive speed on your belt, you could get vibrations.

For the spoiler i use 12 and 24 teeth, but you must remember that i use the original gearbox.


Med venlig hilsen / Best regards

Claus

 

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sisoffi
Mr


218 Posts
Posted - 17-01-2011 : 08:23:48
klaus,
then I take two of these same DCmotor? one for the AT and the other for the spoiler?
I see that this DC motor has 28A but in IO cockpit we must have max 1A, correct?


As for the Throttle wheel how many teeth have pulley and belt?

http://www.cnc-store.it/cinghia-l10mm-p-157.html

for the AT how many theets have the two sprockets?

http://www.servocity.com/html/gears___sprockets.html

 

For the Long trim actuator, suggest me how model can be used for the mechanism:

http://www.servocity.com/html/12v_linear_actuators.html

 

  Thanks,

Simone


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verticallimit
Chief Engineer


589 Posts
Posted - 17-01-2011 : 17:59:03
 Hi

You must control your electric motor through a controller, which can cause the motor to run both ways.

The 28 amps is at full load of the electric motor. Unloaded motor uses 1.5 Amps.

How many teeth sprocket has is dependent on the speed you want on the shaft, so I suggest that you get the electric motor home and try it with the correct voltage, then you can calculate sprockets size, or whether to mount a gearbox to get the right rpm.

 

For the trim indicator is the type 25lbs ok

http://www.servocity.com/html/25_lbs__thrust_linear_actuator.html 

Messure the stroke on the following manner:

Attach a wire to the trim indicator as shown in my tutorial, messure then the length of the movement of the wire from 0 to 100% trim indicator, then you have the stroke of the actuator.

I can see that inside the actuator is mounted a potentiometer this you can use instead of the potentiometer that I mount inside the throttle. This will instead tell your electronics where on the scale the indicator is located.


Med venlig hilsen / Best regards

Claus

 

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sisoffi
Mr


218 Posts
Posted - 17-01-2011 : 23:40:49
Thanks Klaus,

for every prompt reply!

in the page of servocity there are many actuators, which lenght i must buy?

http://www.servocity.com/html/25_lbs__thrust_linear_actuator.html

 

Thanks,

Simone


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verticallimit
Chief Engineer


589 Posts
Posted - 18-01-2011 : 17:00:37


quote:
sisoffi wrote:
Thanks Klaus,

for every prompt reply!

in the page of servocity there are many actuators, which lenght i must buy?

http://www.servocity.com/html/25_lbs__thrust_linear_actuator.html

 

Thanks,

Simone

 

 

I'm not 100% sure that our trim indicator wheels are identical, so you must measure the length. Rather a bit too long stroke than a shorten stroke, on your actuator

Messure the stroke (lenght) on the following manner:

Attach a wire to the trim indicator as shown in my tutorial, messure then the length of the movement of the wire from 0 to 100% trim indicator, then you have the stroke of the actuator.


 


Med venlig hilsen / Best regards

Claus

 

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sisoffi
Mr


218 Posts
Posted - 23-01-2011 : 21:51:25
Dea Klaus, for the long trim I have seen from your tutorial that you use two different switches respectively for the black&white right and left trim.  Ihave seen also thta in maddog is not simulate the left and right but only long trim increase and decrease. 

Is the same to use only one switch that control the actuator or must to be used two switches?

 

thanks,

simone


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verticallimit
Chief Engineer


589 Posts
Posted - 24-01-2011 : 12:33:21


quote:
sisoffi wrote:
Dea Klaus, for the long trim I have seen from your tutorial that you use two different switches respectively for the black&white right and left trim.  Ihave seen also thta in maddog is not simulate the left and right but only long trim increase and decrease. 

Is the same to use only one switch that control the actuator or must to be used two switches?

 

thanks,

simone


 

Hi Simone

Like so much else in the cockpit there is build in extra safty in many controls.

You must use both long trim levers at once, to trim. The same applies to alternative long trim and on the control stick, is also 2 buttons to be operated simultaneously for trim.


Med venlig hilsen / Best regards

Claus

 

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sisoffi
Mr


218 Posts
Posted - 24-01-2011 : 21:58:32
Yes i know klaus, and i want to connect also the two bottons on jokes for the trim, but my question is that in maddog there are two macros or the two commands variable to implement left and right trim? i see that when i click to long trim to capture macro i have only unique macro (increase and decrease)...

 

Thanks,

Simone


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sisoffi
Mr


218 Posts
Posted - 24-01-2011 : 22:13:16
Yes i know klaus, and i want to connect also the two bottons on jokes for the trim, but my question is that in maddog there are two macros or the two commands variable to implement left and right trim? i see that when i click to long trim to capture macro i have only unique macro (increase and decrease)...

 

Thanks,

Simone



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